MLT Club Member Jürgen
MLT Club MemberForum Replies Created
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Hi Jung, thank you very much for the very detailed answer. I think our approaches to understanding the origin and impact of music complement each other very well. Your point of view is that of a musician. You hear chords, recognize harmonies and consciously perceive different keys (key signatures). I rather follow more of a cognitive psychological approach: how did music come to man? How do we perceive our world and construct a whole cosmos of shapes, colors, sounds, feelings, ultimately music and give the whole thing a meaning?
I find it very exciting to talk to you about this topic and would be happy if we could continue the exchange of ideas. Maybe not in the context of this topic anymore, but certainly elsewhere. Perhaps as an independent topic. For example: „Mona, Lisa and the meaning of music“ 🙂 .
PS: Thank you very much for the video. Very interesting and insightful. And the main theme of the video “How much music theory did the beatles know” is answered in the video itself: The Beatles had an awareness of music. They didn’t need any theory at all, they just tried, played, copied techniques from other musicians and continued to play.
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Hi Jung, of course I really like all the performances of Mona & Lisa at the Cavern Club. But three pieces have particularly impressed me:
1) “I saw her standing there”. That’s certainly because I just like this early song. Simple and straight out. This song fits very well into the atmosphere of the Cavern Club. There was a double LP of the Beatles “The Beatles live at the star club, Hamburg 1962“ many years ago. The song is also played there. Poor recording but great live atmosphere. The corresponding video clip of Mona & Lisa that I found is unfortunately upside down, so I do not set this one here. Maybe there is also a good recording of the performance.
2) “You’re gonna lose that girl”. A song that I got to know very early and that I have taken to heart to this day. Great performance.
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3)”I feel fine”. Even if Mona and Lisa “only” play the accompaniment, I find it very original that they have added a bassitin who plays the bass guitar with left hand. Like Paul once did. Wonderful.
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Hello Thomas, it’s nice to hear from you. You are right. There is an interpretation of Lalena on the third Deep Purple album simply named “Deep Purple”. It was released on June 21, 1969 and the vocals are by Rod Evans. His last album with the band as far as I know. While still working on the third album, Nick Simper (bass) and Rod Evans (vocals) were fired. It was probably exactly about this piece of music Lalena. Jon Lord and Ritchie Blackmore found Lalena too soft and harmonious and wanted to give Deep Purple a harder image instead. I like the song very much.
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…and where we are already on the subject of education… 🙂
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and the classic par excellence
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Hi David, great idea. My favorites until 1963: Apache, Blue Moon, Runaway, Take good care of my baby, The Loco-Motion, Telstar. From 1964, of course, The Beatles. But also: It’s my party, The house of the rising sun, Downtown, Turn!, Turn ! Turn!, These boots are made for walking, Good vibrations, Mrs. Robinson and many many more. I counted roughly 18 MLT covers. How many are there really? (If I was very wrong, I hope I won’t be kicked out of the MLT club now)
PS: a little less Elvis wouldn’t have been bad either
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Hi Jacki, thank you for your feedback and I’m glad that you liked the topic. Best Regards
PS: I know that you live in Ottowa, I don’t forget.
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Hi Jung, thank you for all the information. Honestly, I’m not the great expert on classical music. There are certainly classical composers that I like very much, but I experience music in an emotional way not so much analytically. Maybe it’s simply because I’ve never learned a classical instrument and therefore I simply lack the technical terms to describe what I hear. Or to put it another way: I can experience and enjoy music in a very differentiated way, but I often can’t put into words what I experience there. To hear so interesting that the Davies brothers were influenced by Bach’s music, just like the Beach Boys. At this point, an interesting question arises for me: Which was actually there first, the hen or the egg? Is there such a thing as a universal musical code that can be found all over the world, regardless of culture, language, education, etc.? A genetic code perhaps inherent in us humans, shaped in thousands of years by the sounds of nature and our natural environment, such as for example the sound of the wind, the thunder of the sea waves or the song of the birds, etc. A code that helps us to survive, allows us to understand what is happening around us and empowers us to establish social relationships. And there are people who can decipher this code intuitively particularly well and translate it in something wonderful like music. Were the Davies Brothers and the Beach Boys really inspired by Bach or are there parallels to Bach in their music, because they deciphered the universal code, just like Bach, for themselves and developed their own music from it? So because they followed a universal pattern? What I mean is this: It is claimed that the Beatles could not have read and written notes (sheet music?) at the beginning of their career. Their music first developed by listening, replaying and trying out. And of course they were also inspired by other musicians. I could imagine that they had no access to classical music during their youth. The young people in Liverpool in the 60s must have been interested in all sorts of things, classical music was probably not one of them. And yet, within a few years, the music of the Beatles has evolved from simple rhythm’n’blues to something very complex. Another example: Several years ago, somewhere in the depths of the Amazon region, a tribe was discovered whose members do not have any writing or imagery. They pass on all their knowledge, their cultural heritage through singing. Even the small children sing along and thus learn the knowledge of their parents. Ethnologists and musicologists were thrilled by how melodically pure and harmoniously accurate the singing was. They, too, simply used the universal music code.
Probably Mona and Lisa got a little more from this universal musical code than the rest of us.
(sorry if the topic is too complex, I also have problems translating my thoughts cleverly)
I like the idea with the time machine. That would certainly make a great movie. Imagine if Bach had grown up in Liverpool in the 60s and had no access to a church organ. No church, no organ, no pipes. But lots of buddies with electric guitars. Maybe he would have arranged his music pieces like this:
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Jung thanks for the interesting and informative video about classical music and the Beatles. I really didn’t know that yet.
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Hello Walter,
also nice to hear from you. I am very happy if you like the piece of music April. If you are interested in Deep Purple, I can recommend you the first three albums (as far as you don’t already know them). Most pieces on the albums are really worth listening and mostly rather varied. The band was still in a kind of self-defined phase at this time, has tried different styles and was also strongly influenced by other musicians.
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I’m very happy if you like it. The video about the Beatles and classical music? Unfortunately I don’t know which video you mean exactly.
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Hey Jung. You’re right, the song “April” is not something you typically associate with Deep Purple. But it’s typical of the early era of them. The first three albums of the British rock musicians are rather gentle and very experimental compared to their later work. Often also with string instruments. I think at this early stage Deep Purple were still strongly influenced by the Beatles and Donovan, less by Pink Floyd who had to reinvent themselves after their first album “The Piper of the gates of dawn” in 1967. But you’re right, probably Deep Purple and Pink Floyd influenced each other at some point and evolved differently in the 70s. On the first album of Deep Purple „Shades of deep purple“ (my absolute favorite) there is a nice cover song of “Help”. On their second album they completly reinterpreted “We can work it out“ and the early era of the later hard rockers culminated in the album “Concerto for group and orchestra”. Hard stuff. Little rock music and mostly classical instrumentation. With this album, the group not only changed their vocalist (Ian Gillian replaced Rod Evans), but also their musical style: “Deep Purple in Rock” was born and finally paved the way for the album Machine Head and the song “Smoke on the Water“. This is synonymous with this band and unfortunately also the reduction to a single song.
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Hi Jung, I have never consciously paid attention to the parallels between some classical music and rock music. But you’re right. Some classical piano pieces can be converted quite directly into guitar playing. I would like to hear Bach’s Toccata live in a large church. I know the piece of music, of course, but I’ve never heard it live. This is guaranteed pure goosebumps feeling. At the time Bach composed it, it was certainly something special. It still is today. The intro of “Thunder” is already quite crazy. I like it as much as „Touch too much” (that was the time when I was 12 or 13 years old. Party music) and of course “Hellsbells” (I liked to play that at Christmas to annoy my parents).
PS: you probably also know this cover version of sky
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Thanks David. Very interesting, very informative, very technical and very quickly presented. If the young man in the video had spoken a little slower, my brain would have had more time to translate the received speech frequencies into ordered thoughts. But I think I understood the essentials. And yet it is still a miracle for me how you can elicit such beautiful melodies from such an instrument.